Strategic Technology Consultation Services This episode of The Modern .NET Show is supported, in part, by RJJ Software's Strategic Technology Consultation Services. If you're an SME (Small to Medium Enterprise) leader wondering why your technology investments aren't delivering, or you're facing critical decisions about AI, modernization, or team productivity, let's talk.

 Show Notes "So it essentially is a build orchestration framework. So it doesn't replace the .NET CL or MSBuild or whatever you're using today. It doesn't replace GitHub Actions or Azure pipelines. What it does is that it reduces the complexity of those things"— Mattias Karlsson

 Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Modern .NET Show; the premier .NET podcast, focusing entirely on the knowledge, tools, and frameworks that all .NET developers should have in their toolbox. I'm your host Jamie Taylor, bringing you conversations with the brightest minds in the .NET ecosystem.

 Today, we're joined by Matthas Karlsson to talk about Cake (aka C# Make), the build orchestrator built entirely in .NET.

 "Like, you need to evaluate and see what works for you. Because, like, if you have an open source project and all you do is dotnet pack, then it might be too complicated."— Mattias Karlsson

 Along the way, we talked about what a build orchestrator is, why you might consider one (and when it might be too complex to have one), the recent single file application changes to .NET (i.e `dotnet run file.cs`), and talk about why it's important to have multiple tools in your development toolbox.

 Before we jump in, a quick reminder: if The Modern .NET Show has become part of your learning journey, please consider supporting us through Patreon or Buy Me A Coffee. Every contribution helps us continue bringing you these in-depth conversations with industry experts. You'll find all the links in the show notes.

 Anyway, without further ado, let's sit back, open up a terminal, type in `dotnet new podcast` and we'll dive into the core of Modern .NET.

 Full Show Notes The full show notes, including links to some of the things we discussed and a full transcription of this episode, can be found at:  https://dotnetcore.show/season-8/from-yaml-chaos-to-csharp-clarity-mattias-karlsson-on-cake-build/

 Useful Links:  Cake Build Mattias' links:  Website LinkedIn Bluesky Mastadon    Supporting the show:  Leave a rating or review Buy the show a coffee Become a patron  Getting in Touch:  Via the contact page Joining the Discord  Remember to rate and review the show on  Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, or wherever you find your podcasts, this will help the show's audience grow. Or you can just share the show with a friend.

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 Music created by Mono Memory Music, licensed to RJJ Software for use in The Modern .NET Show.

 Editing and post-production services for this episode were provided by MB Podcast Services.

We Are .NET

Mattias Karlsson, open-source maintainer and Microsoft MVP, discusses Cake Build — a C#-based build orchestration framework for .NET developers. Rather than replacing tools like the .NET CLI, MSBuild, GitHub Actions, or Azure Pipelines, Cake reduces their complexity by letting developers write build scripts in C# instead of YAML or shell scripts. Key advantages include local debugging with breakpoints, cross-platform path handling, strongly-typed tool arguments, and the ability to run the same build script across multiple CI systems. The conversation also covers the new Cake SDK introduced in late 2025, which enables single-file .NET application-style build scripts using `dotnet run file.cs`, full VS Code/C# DevKit support, and publishing build scripts as standalone executables or NuGet tools. The episode emphasizes starting simple, building incrementally, and how a statically-typed build script is easier to review, maintain, and debug than complex YAML pipelines.

From YAML Chaos to C# Clarity: Mattias Karlsson on Cake Build