Today Quincy Larson interviews Zubin Pratap, a software engineer and manager from Melbourne, Australia. After nearly two decades working as a corporate lawyer, he taught himself programming using freeCodeCamp.org. Within two years, he landed a job as a software engineer at Google.

We talk about:
- How tools are making programming easier, but other parts of being a developer harder
- How 2009 - 2022 was NOT a normal job market and how devs are adapting
- "The purpose of communication is to be understood" and other lessons Zubin's learned over the years

Support for this podcast is provided by a grant from AlgoMonster. AlgoMonster is a platform that teaches data structure and algorithm patterns in a structured sequence, so you can approach technical interview questions more systematically. Their curriculum covers patterns like sliding window, two-pointers, graph search, and dynamic programming, helping you learn each pattern once and apply it to solve many problems. Start a structured interview prep routine at https://algo.monster/freecodecamp

Support also comes from the 10,104 kind folks who donate to our charity each month. Join them and support our mission at https://donate.freecodecamp.org

Get a freeCodeCamp tshirt for $20 with free shipping anywhere in the US: https://shop.freecodecamp.org

Links from our discussion:
- Zubin's LinkedIn and other social media: https://meetzubin.carrd.co/
- Zubin's "Easier said than done" podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky4Hhd-k1js&list=PLAPuklwJx5V3fpXiSD9CMh3RhPQTCSemj

Community news section:

1. Let's kick off 2026 with a ton of announcements. We just launched Version 10 of freeCodeCamp's JavaScript certification, along with updated Python, SQL, and Responsive Web Design certifications that you can earn. We even launched our beta Spanish and Mandarin Chinese curricula. (10 minute announcement article with tons of data): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/christmas-gifts-freecodecamp-community-2025

2. Now you can learn Spanish on freeCodeCamp. We just launched our FREE A1 Level Spanish curriculum. You'll learn: pronunciation, introductions, numbers, and more. More than 200 steps are live now. ¡Aprendamos! https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/freecodecamps-a1-professional-spanish-curriculum-beta-is-now-live/

3. Over the holiday break I took my kids to Johnson Space Center in Houston. If you're in Houston you should absolutely go here. We visited the Mission Control center that NASA used during the Apollo missions to the moon. They also had an awesome multimedia experience created by Tom Hanks about this year's Artemis mission to the moon. This is an incredible museum. We spent 7 hours there. It wasn't particularly expensive. Just make sure you book tickets to mission control a few months in advance of your trip.

4. During the road trip, I re-listened to Guns 'n' Roses's entire catalogue. Which brings me to today's song of the week: the 1991 epic Estranged. The is maybe the most mature-sounding song they've ever done, with introspective lyrics and a series of tasteful, emotional guitar solos. Great drum fills, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmAY059TTY

freeCodeCamp is a nonprofit organization offering free online coding courses and programming tutorials, covering topics such as web development, data science, and machine learning. Learners can gain practical coding skills, build real-world projects, and earn certifications to advance their careers in tech.

freeCodeCamp

Zubin Pratap, a corporate lawyer who transitioned to software engineering at Google in his late 30s, discusses career transitions, the impact of AI/LLMs on knowledge work, and the realities of the developer job market. He emphasizes that learning to code is only one stage of seven in career transition, with getting noticed, interviewing well, and de-risking yourself being equally critical. Pratap argues that 2009-2022 was an abnormal period of stability for tech jobs, and developers must now focus on building skills, reputation, and network while understanding that the transition process is harder than acquiring technical skills alone.

First developer job at age 38 with lawyer turned software engineer Zubin Pratap [Podcast #203]